Making Heart Attacks History: Caldwell Esselstyn at TEDxCambridge 2011

By Adem Lewis / in , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , /

Translator: Csaba Lehel
Reviewer: Ellen Maloney Coronary artery disease
is the leading killer of women and men in Western civilization. Yet the truth be known, it is nothing more than a toothless paper tiger
that need never exist. And if it does exist,
it need never ever progress. This is a food borne illness. My story begins, actually,
in the late 1970s, early 80s, when I was chairman of the breast cancer
task force at the Cleveland Clinic. My frustration was that no matter
for how many women I was doing breast surgery, I was doing
nothing for the next unsuspecting victim. This led to a bit of global research. It was quite striking to find
that breast cancer rates in Kenya were something like 30 or 40 times
less frequent than in the United States. And if you looked at breast cancer rates
in rural Japan in the 1950s, it was very infrequently identified. And yet as soon as the Japanese women
would migrate to the United States, by the second and third generation. they now had the same rate
of breast cancer as their Caucasian counterparts. But even more powerful perhaps
was data on cancer of the prostate. In 1958, in the entire nation of Japan, how many autopsy proven deaths
were there from cancer of the prostate? 18. That’s the most mind-boggling public
health figure I think I’ve ever heard. But I made a decision then, that I was concerned
that my bones would long be dust before I could really get answers
between nutrition and cancer. And so I chose to deal
with cardiovascular disease, which is the leading killer of women
and men in Western civilization. And it was quite striking
that in this global review there were a number of cultures,
by heritage and tradition, that simply lack
any cardiovascular disease. They were plant-based. And so with that information
I came back to Cleveland. And my wife and I decided to go
on this plant-based diet for a year. And then I asked cardiology
if I could have about 24 patients, which is the number that I can handle and still carry out
my surgical obligations. And the 24 patients that I received, were, as my late brother-in-law
used to say, the walking dead. But they were most cooperative and it was within about, say,
15 months of starting this program that we had something striking develop. I was treating a 52-year-old gentleman
who, in addition to his heart disease, had a partially blocked artery
in his right thigh. And he told me about the fact that when he was crossing the skyway
to my office, he had to stop five times because of pain in this calf,
because of this blocked artery. So I had him go to the vascular lab
and we got his pulse volume. And then I forgot all about his leg,
so focused on his heart. Eight months later, he said,
“Dr. Esselstyn do you recall when I first started seeing you, I had to stop five times crossing
the skyway here to your office? This last month, it got to be four times,
then it was three, two, one,”. He said, “I don’t stop anymore,
the pain is gone”. “Don, back you go to the vascular lab.” I think if you look here, you can see
the difference in pulse volume when I first saw him,
and here we were eight months later, it was now almost two times greater. So the thing that was
so exciting about this was, in science we had demonstrated
what we call “proof of concept.” Not only that, but this occurred one year
before the invention of the statin drugs. So this was so powerful, because
it showed us that indeed with nutrition, we can actually not only halt
this disease, but we could reverse it. And not shortly thereafter, what occurred,
we saw this now in the heart. This is a 54-year-oold security guard
where our angiography core laboratory described this as a 30% improvement. But what really got our attention
was a fellow surgeon at the clinic who, at age 44 in 1996,
began to get chest pain. He did not have hypertension,
he did not have diabetes, he did not have a strong family history,
he was not overweight and cardiology worked him up
in October of 1996, could find nothing. Three weeks later, he was finishing
his surgical schedule. Sat down to write
post-operative orders. Splitting headache, immediately followed
by this crushing elephant in his chest, pain in his shoulder down his arm. Joe was having a heart attack. Whipped down to the cath lab,
start the catheterization, cardiac arrest, resuscitate, and finish
the catheterization. And then he was sent up to the floors and discharged three days later,
but very depressed. Why? Because what they identified was that his left anterior descending coronary
artery, in the front of the heart, the entire lower third
was moth-eaten and diseased, over too long a segment to have stents,
too far down the artery to have a bypass. So he was very depressed about this, so my wife Anne and I had him out
to the house with his wife for supper, two weeks after his heart attack. “Joe you’ve been eating
this typical Western diet. You’ve got the typical Western disease. We’ve got 10 years of data,
how about going plant-based?” “Okay Ess, I’ll give it a shot,
they couldn’t offer me anything else.” He became the absolute personification
of commitment to plant-based nutrition. And over the next thirty months
he then had another angiogram. You know, up in the surgical suites,
our offices are three doors apart. And at noontime of the day
that I knew earlier that morning he had his follow-up angiogram, I found myself letting myself
into his office. There he was sitting behind his desk, “Joe, I understand you had the follow-up
angiogram this morning, Mind sharing with me, how did it go?” Got up from around his desk, put his arms
around me, “I think we’re doing okay.” “Well, any chance I could see
the follow-up angiogram?” “Yeah!” It was really quite striking and exciting
to see what actually can happen; when you give the body
every opportunity it can. The healing capacity is incredible. So now let’s talk a little bit
about how do you injure the artery in the first place,
what seems to be going wrong. Now on the right, there is
a seriously diseased artery. You’re probably saying,
“That’s going to have a heart attack.” No, that only causes
about 10% of heart attacks, but it certainly will cause chest pain
and shortness of breath. What I really want you
to notice is on the left, and here, on the inside of this artery, there’s a very, very, tiny, little dark
single layer of cell “magic carpet”, that all experts would agree is where
the inception of this disease occurs. This magic carpet is called
the endothelium. And the endothelium has an absolutely
magic molecule that it produces. It’s a gas, nitric oxide. Nitric oxide has a number
of wonderful functions. Nitric oxide keeps
our blood flowing smoothly like Teflon, rather than velcro. Two, nitric oxide is the strongest
vasodilator in the body. When you climb stairs,
the arteries to your heart dilate, the arteries to your legs dilate. Nitric oxide inhibits inflammation
from the wall of the artery, protect you from getting hypertension,
and most importantly nitric oxide, in plentiful amounts, will protect you from ever
developing blockages or plaque. Alright, how do those
90% of heart attacks occur? You will see here the artery is divided. And what you’re looking at
in the first serial on the left, is that when you start
eating that cheeseburger, the pizza, the milkshake,
your blood flow gets sticky. And certain elements
like your endothelial cells get sticky, your LDL cholesterol gets sticky,
and then the LDL bad cholesterol migrates into the sub endothelial space, where it sets up this absolute
cauldron of inflammation. And that cauldron of inflammation
begins making inflammatory enzymes that gradually begin to thin out
this delicate cap over the plaque. It gets thinner and thinner
until it’s as thin as a cobweb, and then the sheer force of blood going
over that thinned out plaque ruptures, and now we have spillage
of plaque content into the flowing blood, which activates our platelets,
our clotting factor. Now we are at the beginning
of a clot, a thrombosis, which is in and of itself,
self-propagating. So in a matter of minutes, now we have
an artery that is totally blocked, and all the downstream heart muscle
has been deprived of oxygen and nutrients and starts to die. That’s the heart attack. But there is something absolutely
magically exciting about this series, because if I can convince you
that all you have to do is change your nutrition, so your internal biochemistry is such that you will not injure or thin out
the cap over your plaque, you will actually diminish your plaque, and you will strengthen
the cap over the plaque. Alright, how do we do this? It’s very easy, we avoid the foods
that injure the endothelium. What are they? Even pure virgin olive oil,
corn oil, soybean oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil,
coconut oil, palm oil, dairy. Anything with a mother
or a face, meat, fish. (Laughter) Meat, fish, chicken, and turkey,
and also caffeine in coffee, and fructose. Alright what are you going to eat? (Laughter) All those marvellous whole grains
for your cereal, bread and pasta. 101 different types
of legumes, vegetables, which are red, yellow,
and green leafy, and fruit. But especially the green leafy vegetables
are like water on the fire. What green leafy vegetables? Bok choy, swiss chard, kale, collards,
collard greens, pink greens, mustard greens, brussels sprouts,
broccoli, cauliflower, cilantro, parsley, spinach, and arugula
and I’m out of breath. (Applause) But remember, no oil! (Laughter) Now conventional cardiology, with all those procedures
and all that expense, is high mortality, high morbidity,
and sadly it does not cure the disease, and the expense is unsustainable. However, when you’re treating causality
with plant-based nutrition, no mortality with the diet,
no morbidity with the diet. And what happens with the passage of time,
the benefits just continue to improve. And lastly nobody has greater fear
of another heart attack than somebody who’s already
had a heart attack. And how empowering it can be
for them and their family to know that they themselves can now become the locust of control
for this disease, destroying it. Whereas in the past,
it had been trying to destroy them. And that, lastly,
I want to just share with you, this isn’t just
that original earlier study. But what we’re about to publish
another 200 patients. And the reason we have
91% compliance is because we have a very strong intense
single five hour counselling seminar. That’s the same amount of time
the cardiac surgeon has, but I have the patient when they’re awake. (Laughter) So how do we do? If we look at the vertical axis, what you’re seeing here is the average
of about three independent cohorts cardiology studies
that are quite well known. And the recurrent cardiac events,
after four years, run about 20% on average. Our own, which is called
“Treating The Cause,” is a half of one %, that means
roughly a 40 fold difference. So in summary,
it is so exciting what happens when you treat the causation of disease. Because it is not only prompt, it is powerful, and it is persistent. And for those who, in the future, are coming down
with cardiovascular disease, I hope it is going to be unconscionable
not to inform them of the power of this option
from which they can thrive. Thank you. (Applause)

100 thoughts on “Making Heart Attacks History: Caldwell Esselstyn at TEDxCambridge 2011

  1. To all you people that just love to show us how dumb you are with your negative comments made due to your lack of knowledge start taking the time to learn, Dr Esselstyn one of the pioneers in by-pass Surgery new there had to be a better way and he found it , Go to his web site where you can learn all the facts . This diet was tested on people that if the diet did not work would have died. Then there is another web Site Forks Over Knives that separate to Dr Esselstyn and each not knowing the others work and working for remedies to other medical problems such as Diabetes all came up with pretty much the same diet . I have seen the results for myself A friend was near death and told he must have Triple invasive surgery. He was not going to let them carve him up like a Chicken and researched and found Dr Esselstyn went straight onto the Diet 12 months later he looked 20 years younger , The specialist run all the tests again and he did not need the surgery ( the Specialist went on the diet) My friend explained all the other benefits from the diet , He is off all his medication , including Viagra his Penis works without it , He has a daughter living in the USA and no Jet Lag in his trips to USA. I have ordered the books and videos and recipe books and have started on it. But the Negative Comments found below will be found anywhere there is a comment section people too lazy to do proper research and just wanting to five their opinion when they actually know “F” All on the subject no wonder the World is in such a mess.

  2. There is no indication from studies done among long-lived people that diet is much of a factor. Interviews of 1127 centenarians by the U.S. Social Security Administration from 1963-72 found that only four of them were vegetarians. Without knowing the proportion of vegetarians in the general population it is not possible to know whether this number is statistically significant, but the preponderance of nonvegetarians says something by itself Vegan Dr Neil Barnard's idea that it is not genetics that gives people long healthy lives is refuted by a study of 100 (50 men and 50 women) in their tenth decade of life. When questioned about their lifestyles in their earlier years, the researchers concluded that "in many respects the coronary risk profile of these apparently healthy nonagenarians represents the mirror image of that of the contemporary coronary-prone middle-aged adult." It appears that genetics protected these people from their lifestyles.

  3. Dr Harriet Hall has written that the claims made by Esselstyn are misleading and that the evidence on which it is based is "pretty skimpy". Meanwhile, Dr Steven Nissen chairman of cardiovascular medicine at the Cleveland Clinic said that his (Esselstyn’s) claims are unproven because there isn't data from rigorous clinical trials to support them

  4. This is from Wikipedia: Harriet A. Hall has written that the claims made by Esselstyn are misleading and that the evidence on which it is based is "pretty skimpy".[19] Steven Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic said that his claims are unproven because there isn't data from rigorous clinical trials to support them.[6]

  5. 10% of th population is vegetarian but less than 2% make it to centenarian and even less so for vegans. That doesn't speak too well for th vegetable people BUT th OMNIVORES WIN, YES!!!

  6. Hehe he always makes the Toothless Tiger comment 😛 Anyway, this guy is a hero. Him and Campbell and Greger. Whole foods, plant-based is the way to go!

  7. Alright, I fully support plant-based diets, i have tried it myself many times, but can someone please explain, what's the substitution of meat. Because i've read about vegan moms whose children have bone problems and diseases, because the lack of calcium and protein.


  9. What they need is people who used to eat steaks, real many men, shown eating healthy and tasty foods and saying how much they like it. That is gonna work on alpha males to manipulate them to get the diet.

  10. If U don't die of heart disease you'll die of something else. Everybody dies of something so STFU IDIOT

  11. I have been searching, practicing and working with holistic medicine for 25 years, and it took that long to put all the dots together: Doctor Esselstyn, as his other colleagues that all came from their own fields of research and practice come to the same point: NO OIL & NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS and the least possible refined foods! Well, to tell you the truth it does miracles! But no one likes to hear bad news about bad habits ! It took me lots of work and introspection, courage, and TO EDUCATE MY SELF WITH REAL SCIENCE BASED EVIDENCES to finally make it a daily reality! I sincerely wish I had known and heard these amazing doctors years ago!!! But if you are not there yet, keep on putting up the effort, look at the evidence, listen to the testimonials of 1000 of people just like me, you, us….It made ALL THE DIFFERENCE TO ME!

  12. My Kaiser Doctor turned me onto Esselstyn and Dean Ornish as having the answers to reversing heart disease and i found Esselstyn's ideas to be outstanding and of real value. I pass this information onto my stubborn brother but There an old saying, "You can lead a horse to water (but you can't make him/it drink). My youtube parrot videos get more interest than these lectures but know that Dr. Esselstyn is not about "fake news". He is the real deal on reversing heart disease and preventing heart disease.

  13. Vegan plant based whole food is the shit.
    I love this life so much in every way even my body shape even with weight lifting I'm so lean I can see the striations of my obliques distinct from my abs.

    Hemp seed, pumpkin seed, tofu
    Green smoothies
    Green juices
    BIG huge dark green salads
    With seeds
    Bean Soups

    Clean skin, great digestion,
    I weigh 127 and hit 315 of squat just last week I recorded it on my channel check it out
    Go vegan it's liberating

  14. Don't become cynical, but if you do, just promote this to at least half a dozen of your friends and family.

  15. It's all ABOUT MONEY. If even 50% of Americans ate a plant based diet. THE MEAT AND DAIRY, MEDICAL INDUSTRIES WOULD COLLAPSE. They need to keep people sick for PROFIT.

  16. If one watches enough YouTube videos on diets one will hear contradicting views, most having their own peer reviewed papers to support their claims. The conclusion I've come to is whatever works for the individual,do that. Keep a log of one's diet and weight to track changes over time. I also take my heart rate first thing in the morning, I've found it's a good indicator of a negative food reaction.

    For me no grains, no refined sugar and single ingredient foods! I do 40-45% carbs, 35-45% fats and the remaining percentage proteins! I initially lost 40 lbs and maintained a lose of 35 lbs , and all blood chemistry problems resolved! Blood pressure went from 125/80
    to 110/70 .

    Update: I have gone in the LCHF diet and lost 42 lbs (19kg ) increased HDL above 60 and the Trig/ HCL less than 1.2 . Again diets are individualistic No Grains, No potatoes, No fruits and no added sugars is the key . It is the rubbish USDA food pyramid which is the cause of modern diseases! The US population , 80% is on the carbohydrate intolerant spectrum and would not benefit from a high carbohydrate, a plant based on since by definition it is high carb .

  17. Diet is healthy medicine, but we should not ignore other vital risk factors. There are multiple factors influencing artery health. Dietary issues is only one. Genetics, environmental, diseases that damage arteries. The human body is complex and more than diet impacts its well being. If you don't believe me, try holding your breath and see how long you can last.

  18. I read Dr. Esselstyn’s larger follow-up study ” A way to reverse CAD?” published in the Journal of Family Practice in 2014, and I was very disappointed to discover that there is no control or comparison group. The participants were people who had learned about Esselstyn’s method and themselves contacted the clinic, and all of them received similar advice. This means that there's nothing to compare to. Would they have done better on some other diet, or with no intervention at all? We will never know. This is why it is standard practice in clinical research to have a control group (and no, non-adherent participants are not a control group). As it turns out, the authors didn't even weigh the participants or check their blood values – these were simply reported by the patients themselves by telephone, which cannot be considered a reliable measure.
    Of course, just because the study is flawed it doesn't mean that the hypothesis that it was aimed at testing necessarily is wrong. But as a scientist, I would say that it adds zero evidence for or against it.

  19. Weird to hear the audience laugh at anything with a mother, shows how desensitized the general population is to factory farming, this man is going to save my mothers life and the mothers and children of many innocent animals

  20. I eat a plant based diet for myself. But I notice the Doctor painting a picture of heart disease being a western problem. Yes its a problem, but the US is very fortunate compared to countries with death rates from heart disease 3 times that of the United States. These countries can be found in Eastern Europe. The old eastern block countries of the former Soviet Union like Ukraine. Plus Russia itself has a much bigger problem with heart disease than the US. So I am confused by his portrayal of heart disease being a western problem.

  21. I drink an almond milk (or soy) hot chocolate at my local coffee shop once a day.  Dr. Esselstyn mentioned caffeinated coffee among foods to avoid.  Does that include a vegan version of hot chocolate as well?  Hot chocolate has caffeine, doesn't it?

  22. Caldwell Blakeman Esselstyn Jr. (born December 12, 1933)[1] is an American physician, author and former Olympic rowing champion.

  23. Thanks Dr. Sahib..Your talk is extremely encouraging…Really the human body has great adaptive skill to heal itself.Let us avoid non-veg foods and oils., and stress more on eating fresh vegetables and fruits.

  24. The cultures he is referring to as being "plant based" also eat meat and fish. They may be mainly plant based but it is not truthful to refer to them as "plant based" as if they do not eat any meant or fish. This is simply not true. I have no ax to grind. I am myself a vegan.

  25. All lot of people probably wonder why Caldwell Esselstyn, is so impassioned by this message of plant-based nutrition. If you're one of those people, get a copy of the vegsource documentary, "Processed People". Not so much for the documentary, but more for Caldwell Esselstyn's extended interview.

  26. Come St. Patrick's Day this year and I'm 3 years WFPB (whole food plant based, modified slightly) and LOVE IT. Lighter and healthier and less aches and pains and no more regular consumptionn of OTC drugs (and no Rx drugs either). I'm 51. WISH I'd started sooner, but you're never too old to start the healing. Make the leap.

  27. What I'd give to know the mindset of those who down-vote this video. How come those who down-vote don't say why or give and an explanation? This man will go down in history, and we're lucky to have video evidence of his very clear, concise reasoning on why a plant diet is the best for humans.


  29. This is an excellent talk from Dr. Esseslstyn. For anyone that is curious about the link between heart disease and diet, take 15-minutes and watch this video.

  30. He concentrated on those who were on a plant-based diet and without heart diseases, but what about ones that were also eating meat and were without heart diseases? People don't realize that when they go onto this plant-based diet that they also choose to eat healthier foods, less processed, cleaner foods and that is the catch, also include clean healthy meat and you could be even healthier! Processed foods are killing you, not meat! Do animal carnivores have cardiovascular diseases?

    I have been following Dr esselstyn diet for over two years, hitting LDL of 43mg/dl, total cholesterol 85mg/dl.
    But my lipoprotein A is much higher than recommended level. This got me really worried as there is a direct correlation between Cardiovascular disease and Lipoprotein A, what do I do?
    How comes the plant based diet not having any affect on lipoprotein A?

  32. Vegans. Don't forget to take vit B12 supliment. Becouse it is absent in vegan food. That's super important. People literally die if they don't supliment with vit b12. And also take 1 tablespoon of ground flaxseed becouse it is full of omega 3. Flaxseed powder is superior than its oil. So no oil.

  33. I absolutely disagree. Grains are not needed whatsoever. Wheat, especially, is extremely damaging. Wild caught fish is very important to eat. Eggs from fowl that roam a pasture are extremely healthy. I hope this man is not being paid to say specific foods such as wheat.

  34. Two Esselstyns advocate for plant food- watch Rip Esselstyn too, the firefighter turned plant based diet guru.

  35. I love this guy!!! He even called my father back to give him a boost of confidence after his heart attack trying to stay compliant… Thank you Dr.E.

  36. Going to give this a go. A while back I started trying to hit the plant based diet but lost focus. It did make me feel better though while doing it so after seeing this I'm going straight back on it. Don't know if anyone has noticed but I also observed while having a plant based diet that my bank ballance got better? Probably why the conventional GP might not be plugging this. Not so much money to go round for them when people are healthy as we get to keep our hard earned cash. Really appreciate this video.

  37. 5 years ago I was ill, painful fatty liver disease, diabetes, etc. I switched to a whole-food plant-based diet. My diabetes went away. My cardiac calcium score is zero. I'm a grandma of 7, and everyone in my family died of complications related to heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, macular degeneration, diabetic retinopathy, nephropathy, neuropathy, peripheral vascular disease. I refuse that destiny. Thank you for giving me hope and the tools to live well. Forks over knives!

  38. People die, vegans also, the question is if you want to die healthy or sick, and if you want to eat yummy meat and have years of joy or if you want to eat like a cow?

  39. Our President is blowing up like a big balloon, from his fast food, junk food habit,
    if he would set an example, and go on a plant-based diet, that might encourage others to follow the plan

  40. Does'nt work with hypertriglyceridemia familial. The high carbohidrate (same complex) proportion, induce lipogenesis

  41. Soooo is there a source of nitric oxide that one could supplement their diet with? Would that bring the endotheliam back to health?

  42. Seems like he is very critical of fats like olive oil and avocados. But lots of recent research is indicating carbs cause cardio inflammation.

  43. Carbohidrates + Insulin = grease. Respectfully I agree only in the half of what he said: too much oil is not so good but the body uses Carbs and Insuline to produce grease.

  44. He has changed my life. I am a cardiologist and changed my practice to focus on prevention and reversal of heart disease using plant based diets. The research is solid. He is inspirational. We need to shift our broken “healthcare” system to a lifestyle medicine model focused on the farmacy NOT the pharmacy!!!

  45. Sugar is #1 culprit. Also lack of fasting and the whole six meals a day BS. How you eat is just as important as what you eat. Snake Diet.

  46. Love a dr. that understands the body God has given us if treated right can heal itself. Most dr.'s are afraid to say this for fear of losing their license, but when you are more concerned with saving lives i promise nothing else matter. God bless him and his family.

  47. comment on Japan, autopy and prostate cancer in 1958. The problem TODAY in the USA, is that autopsies are rare. Why?They aren't exciting. money isn't there for them. So, neither hospitals nor governments in many states don't require or have departments for mandatory autopsies. Many dead bodies are cremated soon after death, and so accurate reasons for death are not on death certificates.

  48. That amounted to a couple of anecdotes. All very heart-warming but not convincing. When he touched on epidemiology (which is pretty weak anyway since it deals in correlation not causation) he cherry-picked. What about the French, German and Italian paradoxes? In reality they're just missing data points left out because the don't fit the narrative.

  49. You stopped short of describing how to cook without oil? I know you are a doctor but could tell us how u cook your vegetables?

  50. No oil and eat grains with gluten!
    Dr Perlmutter would argue with this!
    Perlmutter: “What is good for the brain is good for the heart”. Most plant based oils are good. Avocado, coconut, hemp and olive. High cholesterol in the blood is your bodies respond to having high levels of insulin in your blood because you basically are eating foods with refined sugar and processed carbohydrates. Too much gluten and not enough exercise and sleep also contribute to poor brain and heart health. Keep the carbs low and make sure you have Keto a on board to feed your brain. Intermittent Fasting is probably the best tool out there to make radical changes to improve your health.

  51. This is where it gives difficult, many experts disagree with this info, many say a high plant based organic diet, he misses out the vital organic bit out, also vital omega 3 from fish, and organic unpasteurised milk and butter, bio yogurt, kifer, and cutting down on carbohydrates, reducing rice and wheat etc.
    This video goes no where close to explaining why olive oil and coconut oil are enemies.
    To be fair it is rather weak on detail and as always not addressing other diets recommended and fully debating this.
    He seems like a nice man and believes he is helping and to some degree he is but produced more questions than answers at the end of the day.

  52. I have been using olives on my salads; can't find any notations in Dr Esselstyn book or in his wife's cook book if they are allowed.. Would love to know if allowed!!

  53. Shh, do not talk about herbs, vitamins or minerals or body toxins. the Church of Medicine would be Heresy. What happens to Heretics?

  54. made the change 3week ago and i lowered my hypertension pills by more than half coversyl,monocor and norvasc 🙂 lost 15pounds too !!! FORK OVER KNIFE + WHAT THE HEALTH changed my life !!!!!!!!!!

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